Foojay Podcast #44: Quarkus Club

Transcript

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[0:00] Hello and welcome to this new edition of the Foojay podcast today the virtual Java User Group World Tour is taking a detour to the quarkus club welcome to the Foojay podcast all your news about OpenJDK once a month in this podcast we talk about the history of a yava user group and the people behind it in this episode we have a special group as we visit the virtual quarkus Club this initiative started less than a year ago and is already one of the biggest groups in the world dedicated to quarkus hello everybody my name is sza I’m kind of 20 years in it programming skills around the I have the privilege of the luck to start playing with big data once Big Data start kind of Hadoop ecosystem I my main language is Java but I did the Scala and Python and couldn’t I work with codling actually C currently I us to joke I’m the software engineer in the date engineer team and I kind of specialize in date intensive applications for the last I don’t know eight years or so I play with Rasberry Pie as a Robbie do a little bit of fun things at home and that’s it nice to be here hello Frank hello Igor thank you

[1:27] Very much for this opportunity to be here today it’s very important for our community I’m not fluent in English so ego will helping me at times and I was really on some notes okay no problem I’m Lis Damas 37 years old I’m Liv in toris Brazil I’m Java developer with a fxing application migrations I do this using quos I have an amazing is my inspiration Pedro and I dedicate a good portion of my time to the community here in Brazil I serve as leader at the quarks club and also a member of so Jaa thanks for joining I’m Frank Lor I’m creating the Foojay podcast I’m a Java developer since a long time and also a talks writer for aul and thank you for joining of course Louis and eigor we also already had one of these podcasts about the Brazilian community in Su Java so it’s nice to have you again your country being presented here before we dive into the quarkus club itself Louis you are in Brazil Igor you are in Ireland Dublin in Ireland yeah but you’re originated from Brazil yeah I’m I’m from Brazil originally from Brazil there seems to be a very strong focus on the Java Community coming from

[2:53] Brazil am I correct yeah and Brazil is huge right we have a to 100 billions population or more so loads of people and you conquered the world so you’re even in Ireland okay the quarcus club what is it the quarcus club is a community that originated on sard with the initial propose of helping Java developers to have more information about commentation and day-to-day situations over the weeks the community has grow significantly attracting prominent figures from the global Java community with activ participation they has enr and made in and made it a Vibrant Community and the community lives on Discord I’m correct yes yes in Discord like in a simple way quark’s Club is just a group right virtual anyone can join can do whatever you want it start with as the name say quarkus Club so we focus on quarcus but then people can talk about Java and JVM once the main thing here is the group grows in kind of a in an impressive way let’s say and then people who works with codling and quarcus join the group as well so they oh we was like hey we have a cing as well people using C

[4:19] So we can say that it’s open to JV Mish or any language that you can play with quarcus right but we have channels for basically learning so people talk only about the basic of java and there is always people asking regarding front end and things like that so again a it’s a virtual place that people can joy to talk about quarkus mainly but everything regards JVM or any place that we can use Quark somehow and any language yeah that’s it and why did you feel the need to create this quarkus club the need of the quarks Club was regarding as Lou said was regarding the documentation so he works with warus and his team and his colleagues or himself didn’t have too much documentation I don’t know this one year ago or let’s say and then all the documentation was weak in some sense then the in Brazil we have Lads of people doesn’t that doesn’t understand English are not able to read so was kind of difficult to find documentation and even do Portuguese documentation so then they said okay let’s create a group that we can find people around the internet that works with and maybe they can help and one of

[5:42] The things that is end up the group end up doing is there is kind of a effort for translate documentation to Portuguese that start inside the group so is the group mainly Portuguese Spanish English or is it a mix yeah that’s that’s a good question actually the fox was latan when they start right Louise speak fluent Spanish p in Brazil we speak Portuguese right but Louis is fluen in Spanish as well and then the fox was Latin but after I don’t know two or three months we realize that majority of people speak in English as you said like like the linga Frank around the world is English so majority of the content there is English we have kind of a space only for Portuguese I space only for Spanish but if you look the space space only for Spanish is almost empty the space for Portuguese is okay and English like it’s the majority so you have the Discord where all the communication is happening do you also organize certain type of events around corcus yeah we started do we start with some virtual events on Discord but Discord maybe is not the best platform for events then we came with the idea to

[7:03] Start a YouTube channel so we have so we did some I don’t know we have like three or four sessions before and then it’s on YouTube so far we have only in Portuguese so then we decide this Louis is kind of the host for Portuguese and Spanish events we didn’t we don’t have Spanish yet hopefully in the future M and then I’m going to be the H for the English we don’t we didn’t we don’t have any event but soon we are going to start yeah you only started one year ago so you already have a quick start but it’s and a lot of IDs which is a very very good thing so you mentioned Louise already you are involved because you also involved in the sujuk in bra Su Java that was the name I was looking for what’s your engagement why do you want to be involved in a community like for instance now the quarcus club the problem was not able to find good documentation or a quality documentation and special in Portuguese then like let he came with IDE let’s create the group and why he get involved and myself was more I knew Lou because of chose Java before like usually to do some calls on so Java and

[8:31] Then I found by mistake I guess was in linking quart Club I just joined I start to post that and say hey do you want to be one of the coordinator or something because you are one of the guys that always answering the question now it’s posting yeah why not and then after a while when he came with the YouTube channel idea and say we need someone that’s speaking English can you do you want to be the host yeah why not let’s do it let’s do it so yeah I don’t have quarkus back that’s the funny stuff I don’t have quarkus background I never works with quarks of course I did some hell wordss I play a little bit that’s that’s true but I never played never worked with quarks right but one of them the things that we always emphasize and we always repeat this in the community that despite the name SAR clubs we are not there for like blind say quarkus is the best use quarkus and hate the others right there thousands of loads of peop that join the club or thead then talk about spring and in any point we say no get out we don’t talk about we always answer we always share so and another thing is sometimes

[9:50] We like to say bad things right we want to poke and say hey this point here doesn’t work if you need that don’t use qus so it’s kind of open Freedom anyone can say whatever they want it’s not about fighting against what is the best and Wars Frameworks not about that yeah but this is the Java Community that’s that’s the general ID there are several possibilities for each problem finding the best solution we always jokeing and there’s people about coddling as well right so we always joke like Java is better than cotl cotl is better than Java or quarcus is better than spring or whatever right I said is the nin man in the community Lou is joking about I kind of the guy who just joined the calls to be to say the opposite right like imagine there’s a call with three person and everybody say something as N I think it’s different let’s let’s look at the other perhaps we look in the other direction we’re going to see so you’re the one who keeps repeating it depends yeah that’s a good consultant I always answer it depends but you may be right about disc question about missing

[11:07] Documentation my own I did quarkus only once for a project that I got challenged on the Raspberry Pi can you compare the speed with a spring application so I indeed it’s several years ago that I created this blog post and at that time definitely it was a bit hard to find documentation so we have evolved a lot of years now I’m still using spring a lot for mainly pet projects then nowadays why should I take a look at quarkus what’s so much better or different if you compare to other Frameworks that’s a good question this is something that we talk about we usually to joke or talk about argue about like it’s difficult to answer the question when the framework E A is better than framework B like for to answer this question you need to understand like deep dive the framework right for example spring has the spring data or quarcus has the similar I forget the name the project whatever is the name and then you’re just going to know which one use if you kind of really go and look and check I don’t know spring starts T cats by the full quarcus start Jet by the full so you’re just going to

[12:28] Know the difference if you know what is T cat if you know what is Jetty but the points that not us like the head head or qu group people try to sell is the thing that the compilation he do everything on he try to spend more time doing the compilation and then the startup time is faster so if you have a scenario that you need a faster startup maybe this is for you right the other thing is the native compilation because they use whatever they can give the smaller image size so if you have a need for a smaller image size maybe that’s for you so we always argue about those points right like what it is what is not but if you Point Blank ask like what’s the best fror for it’s really difficult to answer I don’t think anyone can answer like as I said if the quarkus community right everybody’s going to answer quar that’s obvious but and the same goes for the spring side yeah that’s and if you working with cotl or if you work with Java I guess the M the maturity of the framework is different right so people it’s common say people came with question like ah I’m I’m work with cotland and we are

[13:54] Considering adding quarkus do you think it’s mature enough and then I don’t know yeah who knows right you need to play and test so I have two points three points help me he said head hats in Brazil did a nice job with the bank industry so majority of the banks in Brazil are using qu and this is something that we already argu argue on the community right we don’t know why like could be lots of reason right they can they might put money and that’s it or they might have a deal and that’s that’s why we don’t know why but that’s true like the bank industry in Brazil loads of banks or majority of them are using qu and then the community helps because bringing people and share the knowledge and L as as well about the de part from quarcus has kind of the dev mode that I don’t know if I need yeah Dev if I need to play with I don’t know Kafka he has a Docker that has the Kafka already there so I don’t need install so this is what they call like deely friendly or friendly devil like in a sense in a nice way you have everything ready to play without care about the infrastructure so this is a

[15:26] Point for a good point for the framework let’s say right and the other point that he said is the regarding the people that works inside the quarks or the head head those guys are more open in that sense so if you try to find out someone to talk with someone that works in the work stream or inside the head head they are more open and more freedom I heard you planning to publish a magazine is it a paper magazine do they still still exist yeah that’s that’s a that’s a nice so someone inside the community came with idea let’s do a magazine it’s the idea was kind of open like it’s it’s going to be a newsletter it’s going to be magazine something on the middle right so then we said yeah let’s do it so the idea is we can submit a call for paper and people submit some articles like kind of a Blog poish then we came with the idea that no Let’s do an interview or let’s let’s let’s talk about the pro projects that we are doing inside the community and then we can gather this material together generate a PDF you like and then Louise discovered anyway I guess this is no for a lot of people

[16:46] On Amazon you can publish kind of a PDF that in kind of the server that they have I don’t know the name and then anyone if they want they can go there and buy the printed version mhm so for us kind of as a community the PDF is free right everyone can download but if you have your article there you might consider why not I’m going to print this just for and then you can print it but then it’s you and Amazon right the qus club doesn’t matter we are not going to make any money with that and then Louise spreads the words with lots of people and then the guy from head hat saw the this hey wait a second that’s that’s that’s nice right we don’t have it so maybe if the community do of course the first thing that they said was about the name we cannot use quarcus in the magazine if you release a magazine qu they going to say no get out you so we end up with I don’t know key magazine right Q club or whatever we cannot use but they like the idea and then they want to participate and people start showing can I submit my article what I need to do to be the to guys interview me in the

[18:08] Next Edition or whatever right but this idea is since in November or something and because it’s Community we are kind of slow right and some people started when the magazine is going to be released wait someday we will We just need organize things yeah ID start very fast but they have to find a way to be executed a community is like a open source project right only works if people contribute add contribution and do it if you just asking asking not going to help too much but slowly we are going to achieve someday a magazine so said that Max Anders that is one of the contributors of qus saw the idea like it and he is going to be one of the interviews in the first edition and Elder Mor is a Brazilian Java champion and he likes the IDE as well and he’s going to anyway he’s going to be like the he’s going to have a kind of a main article in the Edition as well but the main point that we saw right is I don’t know if it’s is was because of serson or not but the hedg Hat guys saw they are aware let’s say right and they are they kind of we like that let’s do it so this was really

[19:42] Interest for us right when we saw that we somehow got the attention of head hat guys somehow right okay don’t forget to publish something on Foojay when the first edition is available and that people can find it also on there okay can you tell us more about the JDK comparison project what’s that again another project that started inside the group in a call like we was doing a one hour call Wiki and then the idea up just starts there the idea is to find out what is the best JDK to run quarcus and then there is loads of points that you can compare JDK versions right we start to compare like a put or memory consumption or startup time or the size of the image and then anyway there’s loads of different versions of JDK sometimes they add more stuff or they remove stuffs of course you can use the jlink and those kind of thing you can do crack and remove some things but we try to avoid those those points right like just the basically normal compilation and we compare and then the idea was we can do the comparation anyone can do it right it’s not anything special we create kind of a

[21:07] Hello we Define right kind of a Hello word application in quarcus and then we share that application anyone can test and then what we was thinking as a group like it’s better than one instead of I’m like me or one person doing the test we can ask people from the group for doing the test from the community so the results is not one computer answer it’s a group of people answer right and then this opens for kind of a second project can we create a dashboard that we collect the information and show then as a community there’s the ideas like we have plent of ideas right but the point is it’s not to one person doing the test it’s the group doing the test and more than that is the ability of I give give you the I give you the code is going to be in G get the code and do the test yourself instead of I’m saying I don’t know the JDK from head hat is better than nazu or vice versa the JDK from Zulu is better than Oracle instead of I’m saying that is here is the code do the test yourself whatever is your achiev that’s the idea and then of course I was so we started as open source project

[22:27] We put on GitHub when people from the community start to give some ideas it’s it’s a little bit tricky not tricky right you need a little bit of knowledge because you need to download lots of JDK versions and we cannot upload the JDK on GitHub and then some versions are not free and then because for example right if you get AO for example I’m sure if you get the paid version of AUD K is going to be the better results than the free version of right and then how we are going to get the paid verion those are the challenge but there areation versions I can tell you but yeah it’s still if you just compare the number of model the number of models of any JK you just find out that the models are different because the number of models are different the size of the image change of course you can up to JDK 11 was no difference mhm JDK 171 Oracle give the idea of Open Source you can get this and compile your own JK there is lots of difference it start a little bit but if you look JDK 21 like there is really really big so this might be a trending let’s wait Java 22 or 23 or 25 right the next one

[23:53] With a long-term support and we can check the difference so it’s it’s interest topy that’s one of the nice things I find about GDK project that the sources are there you can build I’ve done it a few times on the Raspberry Pi get the whole JDK sources and build it on the Raspberry Pi and I have a Raspberry Pi running 22 which is only available next month so that’s the fun thing you can indeed get the sources and run it on your own and there is there are some jdks that came from oraco stuff there are some JK that came from IBM stuff and there are some jks that came from grm so then you have kind of I don’t know more than 20 option more than 30 op I don’t know enough options that’s for sure yeah you name it right yeah is this JDK project on GitHub yes it is on GitHub actually on inside the Discord we have kind of a forum and people talk I guess that’s the best points the best place to follow on GitHub is just a page there is not too much information there but yes there is a page on GitHub because the idea was clone or whatever download the code and run local and get your

[25:15] Results saying that there is a Java base mode or something mod or something like that in different jdks this F changing I don’t know 20 to 50 megas so it’s a it’s a huge difference right so you just flip it for JDK 1 to JDK 2 when you spend I don’t know 50 magas less just flipping the JDK of course change the JDK is a controversial topic right you need to check a lot of by the way there is a nice book from PJ or for AO right that you can learn how to what are the points that you need to pay attention when you decide to move from one JK to another yeah Java migration for dummies I will also add a link to the show notes it’s a free ebook what are the future plans for the quarkus club we you already mentioned a few of them but you have more IDs now we are going to Force the magazine right we need to complete that one we are going to start the you we have the YouTube YouTube channel but we are going to try to bring more English speakers maybe Spanish speaker anyway right for do more events and then there is plan for do a presential event despite it a virtual community we might try V

[26:44] Presential events anyway we was thinking in doing some kind of small events around Brazil and then once a year we do kind of a big event and try to bring everybody that’s the idea and because I’m kind of in the other side in Europe I might try to do a verion here anyway that’s the points that we was thinking small events around Brazil maybe a big event on the end in s Paulo in a place that we can get we lucky some some small events in the Europe as well let’s see it’s always nice to see how a little ID of let’s join a few people on Discord can turn up to become one a big group and then lead to a magazine challenges maybe physical on in person events it’s really nice that this small ID grew to something so big we was impressive when we saw like how fast grow and I guess what I said like when head had when we realized that head hat was looking to us then was the w we got that attention that’s that’s the nice thing do you have numbers of course it’s difficult to see how many are people are really active in a Discord but 2,400 members are more or less and then I don’t know 20% 30% is activity that is

[28:20] What kind of as impressive number 30% yeah 33% or something like his activ so it’s kind of good mhm and yeah that was it’s it’s kind of tricky right to validate contribution or whatever but it’s still we are kind of impressive if you compare it to a ju and the Meetup then having over 2,000 members is big and of those 2,000s not 30 people 30% is joining a Meetup so having that number of active people is isn’t it pretty impressive yeah still we want to see how long this go right how long they are going to still fingers crossed it’s just going to grow quarcus is getting a lot of traction I guess it’s becoming more and more interesting for people and people are interested in it so I think people looking for information will end up in the quarkus club yeah hope so still we see a lot of people on Discord and say I didn’t know about quarcus I’m I’m learning spring and someone mention quarcus then I found out about these group so yeah that’s again there is loads of other Frameworks outside right we have Micron out we have I don’t know Elon Vex or your name is right we have loads of other we are not

[29:49] Trying to sell anything and say framework a is better than b but it’s funny to see when someone joins say I never hear about I’m here to maybe try to learn welcome that’s what we all try to do in the community learn and keep learning do you have questions to the people listening to this podcast so basically is the question that like why not right why the question is like what is missing for people try qus what is missing why not right why not try why not try out and then what is missing for you try out and because if in specific scenarios right clks could be a better option if you just follow blind follow whatever had had try to sell right if if you need a better startup time or if you need a smaller image size right those are the main points that they sell up so you should check it out why not M and if you want to know why not or why they do have to use it they can check in the Discord Channel yeah exactly if the opposite is true as you said like if you want to know when I’m not supposed to use right it’s it’s what we like right we like to say hey here there’s a problem don’t do it

[31:14] That’s that’s maybe me that’s what Lou always joke like ego is the guy had say hey no here is not good so yeah then you try out and so the question is for the audience is more like why not why you don’t trite what is missing for you if it’s a group you now we have right if it’s documentation join the group and let’s let’s contribute to improve the documentation even translate for any language that you want right we start the effort to translate for Portuguese but why not translate for Spanish I don’t know if he already have I’m just say as example right let’s translate for Chinese Mand or whatever you speak manry no but yeah you can translate for I can do Dutch I can do dut yeah you can do Dutch why not these were all my questions do you is there anything else you want to share with the community with the listeners so saying that’s for any reason someone is afraid to join the community right it’s just saying that the community is open Freedom it’s friendly you can say whatever you want as I said sometimes we even say bad things about quarcus so no one cares we didn’t have any bias

[32:39] Right no one here Works in had hat or why not doesn’t matter right the point it doesn’t matter you can work or you cannot doesn’t really matter and if someone is afraid can try to you can get in touch with Louise or myself or anyone that you watch a video on YouTube and ask questions there is no no problem with that as well I’m now making this podcast for over a year and that’s that’s the general rule the Java Community is friendly there there’s no question about it I hope now people are going to see on f j so they can we are on FJ so you can find us there anyway you can ask questions that by the way on FJ there is onl if you part of his leg there is a quarcus channel on his leg so see yeah we also have that in the Foojay slack indeed so we can link all everything together now okay thank you for taking the time to be my guest in this podcast Igor and Louise thank you also to the listeners keep an eye on Foojay for future articles about development and everything related to the Java World thanks for listening give me a f give me a j give the friends of OpenJDK