Foojay Podcast #8: JUG World Tour: Manchester

Transcript

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[0:00] Hello and welcome to this new edition of the 3j podcast today we are traveling to England for the Manchester Jack welcome to the Foojay podcast all your news about OpenJDK in this podcast we introduce a new topic from now on we will once per month fly around the world virtually to meet the people who organize Java user groups hi my name is Jonathan Bullock I’m a full stack developer at taparito a health tech company and I’m a co-organizer of the Manchester Java Community hi I’m Nicole I’m a software engineer working within the finance sector I’m involved in the Manchester Java Community as a leader I’m happy to be here and I’m Frank Laporte technical writer at Azul with a very big interest in how jugs are organized and what they actually do let’s go back to the start of the Manchester Jack how did it start it’s coming up to nearly 10 years since the Manchester Java Community has died and myself I’ve only been involved for about five years and maybe Jonathan around the same or a little bit less I think I started getting attending events around 2017 after I checked my notes when I joined I spoke to at the time

[1:16] Who was the leader it was a lady in Colorado and another lady called Debbie rycroft and I think this was in 2013 I think they you know just realized that there was a lack of a community in Manchester around Java specifically so they took it upon themselves to create one and I think there were four people at the first meet up but I think over the months that kind of quite rapidly started to increase and eventually you know they grew a really kind of Vibrant Community within Manchester and obviously it continues today and what was the reason for you to join the organization itself to start organizing this joke it came about it was funny actually it came about and I think it was in 2017.

[2:00] Heinz kibbutz if you’ve if you’ve heard of him he came over to Manchester to the company I was working at and delivered a training course and as part of that I managed to arrange for him to speak at the Manchester jail Community he did a great session all around concurrency and I’d already been going to a few of the events now and again but this kind of this kind of key event with Heinz involved it just kind of sparked my enthusiasm and my motivation to maybe take that kind of interest of just being attending a little bit further I was quite fortunate that I got an invite to J Cree that next year which is the unconference at Heinz runs in Crete where he lives so I went out to there and I came back from there and I just completely inspired by kind of communities and decided right I need to do something more about this and thought about right what can I do first thing I did was I decided to do a talk at the Manchester Java community so I did that talk it went reasonably well just a short lining top but on the back of that Allison who was one of the you know key leaders at that time

[3:01] Kevin spoke to me gave me a bit of feedback and asked if I’d be interested in getting a bit more involved so for me that was like yep definitely straight away got involved and yeah kind of started there just by helping out in and around the events and you know doing a bit of introducing and that kind of thing to start with same for you Jonathan how did you start I think it’s interesting what Nick said then every time I’d come to an a Manchester Java Community event I’d always leave feeling very inspired and re-energized and it I’d been thinking about how the Java Community are how I benefited are much from it and throughout my professional career and I felt like I wanted to do something to give back to the community so I suppose this has been involved in the local Manchester Community as my way of paying it forward I guess I have many sessions do you do per year pre-covered times we were had a pretty regular kind of plan of one per month obviously at that time they were pretty much all in person I think through the last couple of years it’s gone a bit more ad hoc and because

[4:08] There’s a lot more flexibility around times and people being available I’d say we still kind of kept probably on average about one per month I would say do you think jobs are not about right yeah that’s about right sometimes more sometimes less and is it a big community in terms of Meetup kind of membership we were looking at about 1400 1500 people as as everybody knows that doesn’t equate to active members and so I think in like in reality if we’re to look at attendees of meetups on that monthly basis we range really and it kind of depends on the topic but we usually get between 10 and upwards like 40 50 people sometimes you know often it’s around the middle but you know so I’d say like yeah a bit of a range about 35 people is probably the average yeah it’s it’s funny if you see Twitter pictures of jugs it’s always a very different amount of people joining sometimes it can be very hard topic I guess with only 10 or 20 people and then the popular topics where there are a lot of more people joining it and what is the format that you use is it one or two speakers is it a fixed

[5:18] Format so it I think there’s been a bit of variety really I think when we were doing a lot of in-person meetings early on we tried to do like a lightning talk coupled with a longer talk so that would use the bit too once we kind of went more remote over the past couple of years it’s pretty much just been the one talk for that whole session the night I saw was one of the kind of nice things about going to that more remote nature is that allowed us to start creating content that we could share on our YouTube channel so that’s something we never really kind of been able to well we probably could have done it previously but we’ve never really it’s never been as easy to do you know because you have to have that kind of audio visual kind of skill set something up for an in-person meeting to record it and then publish it but once you know Zoom just makes that really easy just to hit the record button get some content do some of my editing and then yeah publish it to our community I think if people are interested in starting a joke I think it’s a learning curve I guess starting from your first event and

[6:21] Having only a few visitors I suppose to having really a big Community around you sometimes it doesn’t matter how many people turn up to those events so I wouldn’t let numbers put you off sometimes you know the best events I’ve been to where there are only a few people and you have some great conversations at those events it doesn’t always have to be or it doesn’t you know the number of people doesn’t Define a success of an event sometimes I think that’s important to remember if you’re starting out on this road yeah I love the ethos from the Open Spaces all on conference to kind of seeing where you know the people turn up to the right people you know whatever happens happens and I think we’ve we’ve kind of embraced that a lot with the events that we run we try not to get too stressed or worry about you know others are there going to be a lot of people there or not we just kind of we go we have fun we learn and yeah like I think what you find is if you’ve got five people there they’re usually the five most enthusiastic people who could be there so it just works so which is great for us yeah and

[7:22] As I heard most of the times the drink afterwards could be more important than the Talk itself that’s true that’s very true can you remember the most remarkable session for you could be the one that’s where everything went wrong I think the most remarkable for me that I attended was probably when Josh long visited us and he talked and did demos for I want to say close to three hours it was definitely our longest talk I’ve ever attended but and the only reason he had to stop was because the building wanted to close and the security had to literally kick us out but he could have carried on and on and everyone nobody wanted to leave you know it was definitely a unique experience I felt really awkward like that was the one there just kind of trying to get his attention with my hands saying yo they’re trying to kick us out here we need to we need to leave but yeah and I agree that was a great event that was a great event I think from my perspective one that like it this was a speaker I’d kind of I’ve always watched their thoughts in its vent cut and so I think that’s super amazing and he like we

[8:36] Managed it was I think he was because all in a local company and so we managed to get really lucky that he was in the area and we got him on to speak I just remember the first thing he did was he walks into the room kicked off his shoes started his presentation just walking up and down like with his all his socks on you know making himself right at home really and you know it was just he’s such an engaging speaker and just to see him in person and like get to know him that little bit and just learn a bit more about him as a person rather than this kind of rock star let’s say was really good yeah I’ve seen both of them just recently at devox in Belgium and I’m really wondering what these people are eating and drinking they have so much energy they have also the ease of use how they dare to do live programming and stuff like that but yeah it’s also a matter of experience I guess it’s a lot of skill a lot of practice no doubt but yeah they’re obviously there’s some natural ability there I think that they’ve just got that not everybody has these are the top-notch speakers the creme de La

[9:38] Creme as they would say in France do you have some kind of like in the Netherlands they have this program that they organize from the anal Jack to guide new speakers something you’ve done this is a I suppose a bit of a topic for me which I think we have not done great at over the past few years and you know there’s kind of different reasons for that so pre recovered in maybe a couple of years before that we did pretty well with the local community of getting even like myself for example you know giving people opportunities getting them involved maybe that’s like the lightning speaker slots you know I’d get a new speaker involved and helping them give them maybe a little bit of coaching here and there to get them to that level of having enough confidence and about their presentations I think but yeah over the last few years I think time is it has been a big thing with Wiggles as a community like lost Lots has been going on and being able to kind of put on events but then also do the other bits and pieces around the edges that really give back to the local community I feel like we’ve kind of lost that a

[10:47] Little bit over the last two or three years and it’s it’s something that I think is really important and I think Jonathan’s worked on it before around paying it forward right for us as leaders of the community it’s it’s up to us to kind of really get out there speak to the local community you know try and get people involved in different ways so 2023 is the year of reconnecting with Manchester as a community I think covered and remote meetups have taken us just naturally taken us away from that connection to Manchester it’s become more of a we’ll do events we’ll put them on YouTube and it’s more of a global audience but I think for me personally making it a Manchester thing again and really kind of getting the Manchester back into the Java Community is what it’s about for next year yeah those those after event talks are some of the best you know some of the best things that happen at an event for me and you know where you have a random conversation with somebody you’ve never met before and you really connect with somebody and I think that’s something that I definitely lost or missed when we

[11:53] Went to doing online only events through the pandemic and that’s something I’m eager to get back to as much as possible we’ve tried a few times didn’t we we’ve like extending the online kind of meet up by maybe 20 minutes for I sold more of a little bit of networking but I think the problem with it with a video call is that you’ve always got the focus of one person who’s talking like you can’t have brand no you can do breakout rooms and things like that but it’s not as easy to create that natural branching out of different conversations and people just mixing so yeah I think like as good as you know you can get it to a certain level of quality in terms of online but you just never get that real kind of authentic feeling of it being a you know that in person kind of style meter there’s definitely a pre and a post covet area here yeah yeah I wanted to do drugs just before kovit started the covet gave me the opportunity to talk virtually around the world that’s something I would probably not have happened otherwise but yeah being in person and virtually it’s it’s a major difference yeah that that’s

[13:05] Definitely true and it’s not to say that you know through the pandemic and we’ve had some speakers that gave talks for us that we wouldn’t necessarily had over because they weren’t in Manchester for a specific professional reason and we that we could maybe piggyback on as Nick said about venkat and so it has opened up doors to having some other speakers on at the joke who’ve been able to give a talk that we wouldn’t necessarily have had so there are some benefits in that there’s a desire to get to build that Community again build that local community which is where it originally started I don’t think we’ll like stop doing the online events but I think we’ll kind of aim to choose online or virtual sessions that are a bit more unique so what we found is that you can get the speakers who do in the conference circuit and you can get their Talks by every other kind of community is getting the same talk so it feels a bit I suppose flooded in terms of the same content being out there and being kind of re republished right every few weeks when this and you know that’s

[14:16] Great for the speaker but I think for us as a community we want to kind of have our content to be a little bit more unique so we started doing a few things through through Kobe where I suppose the sessions were a bit more like q a based so we’ve got to speak on it we had Ron Preston along who came on quite early in basketball obviously still something that project Lim is still something that’s kind of in progress and but he came on probably about a year or so agon is talking about the progress approach so that was kind of a really good I think Jonathan hosted that was a conversation between Jonathan and Ron talking about the project and we’re going to learn a bit more of the details that was really positive I think we’ve had like a similar kind of form we had James Goff on early in 2020 similar kind of structure so I think for me that that’s the kind of event where I think it it’s a bit I suppose a bit more like a podcast like this where you know having a conversation you’re learning a lot about the person as well as the projects that they work on I think that gives it that interesting slightly different take

[15:15] Which I think is quite nice if you have local speakers do they talk about technology or for instance how they solve the specific problem in their company or in the project that they are working on I suppose it’s a good question because it comes back to I suppose maybe our lack of ability to get local speakers on over the in recent times but yeah I think like if I was to think back to most of the local speakers that we’ve we’ve had on have been sharing their experiences within their you know I suppose maybe it’s within their work environment working on specific problems I think it’s quite I quite like those kind of more like experience reports let’s say rather than his his his product and I’ll show you how it works it’s like here’s a product and this is what I learned from using it or this is how you know I experienced a specific kind of situation I think for the kind of local speakers I think it’s something that’s worked really well in the past we’ve done the name lightning top events where every single talk is aligning talk and we do like five and ten minutes and we don’t always

[16:25] Stick you know we’d honestly stick to Java as being the theme and I think that creates a good diverse set of talks to be honest because you’ll get maybe you’ll get somebody talking a little bit about agile and then when we had somebody on talking about their apprenticeship with a company and what they learned from being an apprentice and why other people should do the same thing but then yeah you have some really good technical Java talks mixed in there as well and it makes for a really good event in my opinion yeah something I learned in at devops was people telling me yeah I am a Java developer I’m already doing this for years but it’s only now that I learned about project Loom or all these new stuff that’s happening in Java 15 16 17 we are still stuck 8 or 11.

[17:14] So yeah it’s for some programmers who are really focusing on the job coming to this kind of talk they can really I didn’t know that this already existed I mean that’s an interesting thing because I’ve thought about this a few times so I I’ve recently joined an organization and it’s pretty pretty large you know talking like 10 000 engineers and what you find that is that inside these organizations sometimes like especially like my junior people it’s all they know is what their company does not necessarily what you could do outside of that company and that’s where I think we fit in isn’t it as a community and different things like devops conferences it’s it’s almost like showcasing what you could do rather than being kind of opening helping people open their minds a little bit to the options and the potential that’s on there one other area that I’ve maybe over the past few years I’ve I’ve come to appreciate when I’ve been seeing other people’s talks is talks on maybe not that you know hardcore technical aspects but maybe on soft skills how to improve maybe presentation skills given talks some of those talks

[18:23] I’ve found are just as valuable to me professionally and as the latest and greatest Java framework or Java Library and I do find them quite interesting so we’ve had a couple of talks on talks given where some of these how to improve yourself generally and which can be you know just as good as any any other talk also a question I heard was yeah improving yourself but then also on very deep specific topics of java I’m doing this or this like database stuff that you can really get some insights in how does this actually work if you use this code what does it do behind the scenes and some people are also really interested in this a deep dive technical stuff but I’m not sure that will attract a lot of people and that’s probably something yeah you have to fight against her is this a good idea for a jerk if not a lot of people show up or combine it with a popular talk maybe it’s something interesting wave over the past maybe a couple of years noticed that there is a definite desire at least within our community for almost a desire for core Java talks so one of the most well-attended events we had over

[19:45] The past 80 months was a talk on Java streams so it’s a very very specific area of java but I had one of the best attendance rates we’ve had so there’s obviously a desire there for some core Java to be talked about in more detail yeah I think one of the challenges I found like with planning the events is trying you’ve always got to think for it try and think what other people might want to see rather than yourself I remember I think it was around the beginning of 20 2020 obviously everything was going crazy in the world and from a leadership perspective it literally at the point it really became just me as the only person organizing and I realized that well we I wanted to keep the Manchester Community kind of going so we had like this kind of heartbeat while everything was locked down we wanted to keep something there just to keep the community going but I realized that with just me thinking about these things there’s a couple of problems there I’d be a single planet of failure for the community so if something happened to me the community would stop but also like my ability to kind of I suppose think

[20:53] More diversely and you know is limited obviously so I’ve made it a really kind of key objective for I suppose that first few months of lockdown to try and start to think about how we could you know go away from it just being me and expand it out to a wider leadership team so we started doing well well I think the first thing I did was I set up a an event called a community discussion so this was an online session that we published onto our YouTube channel There’s an opportunity for anybody to join who was interested in the Java community and just that you know to start off with it was just let’s have a chat think about what people want try and get some new ideas and my kind of volunteer motive there was to actually get other people to help organize the events and quite unfortunately Jonathan came to that and then there’s a couple other people as well there’s Craig McDonald and David Underwood who are two other leaders of the community so they’ve got involved now I would say we’re not very diverse yet as a leadership kind of team but at least we’ve got four different people now are helping to kind of

[21:56] Organize things and helping to think about the content that we produce but we’re still I think we need to kind of push that even further and really kind of think about trying to make that leadership team more diverse getting more people involved who want to contribute from different backgrounds different you know whatever it may be because I think only then will we start to really kind of take the boxes around creating content for different types of people rather than just you know maybe the more senior kind of engineer level where you know I might be really interested in something deep and Technical but actually for somebody just starting out in the career that’s way too far they just they want that one-on-one in kind of maybe a Java topic that gets them off the ground and gets them really kind of motivated interested talking about diverse how is this between your visitors male female young olds yeah I would I’d say predominantly male probably quite reflective of the industry I suppose we do have we do get some female kind of people involved in attendees and

[23:09] But yeah it’s something that we don’t do a great job of in terms of like that diverse attendance we definitely get a diverse I’d say we get diversity in terms of age and kind of volcanistan you know so we probably get diversity in terms of backgrounds or ethnicity and things like that but the gender kind of point is a bit more yeah we don’t do a great job of that the honest thing but what I hear about Java being popular with younger developers that’s also something we should as a community probably work on but it also depends on education and what’s what’s the universities are using as a language is definitely a topic from what I understand there’s there’s quite a bit of focus on that isn’t it currently in the Java I suppose I’ve seen seen some things I think it might be Brian cuets with a focus on trying to make it easier for you know people to just write simple programs without the overhead of the class and the mean and yes yeah yeah it sounds like a great kind of initiative and hopefully that puts Java in a place where universities think ah that is a good option here because our developers

[24:24] Or our students can get up and running really quickly I love jibang in that way it also helps you to run simple Java as one file yeah there are some nice evolutions and indeed yeah I guess that’s what jokes are also meant for spreading the law for Java yeah I mean like getting back to in person I think that’s something hopefully we can in the past we’ve done kind of Workshop style events where we’ve been like Hands-On everyone brings a laptop and we do caters and stuff for me that’s like one of they’re some of the best events because you really kind of interact with people you really talk and work together to solve problems so hopefully we can get some of those back in place next year as well do you have a fixed location for your jerk we’ve been quite lucky that we’ve got a number of companies in the Manchester area that are willing to make their office space available to us and thankfully that’s been that’s continued on after the covid pandemic has kind of got back to normal and so we’ve still we’ve still got a good selection of companies who are willing to host events for us around

[25:33] The Manchester area how do you arrange this is such a company the host of the evening or do they also give a talk I think that kind of depends some sometimes they’re just hosts you know they kind of offer their space and I think obviously the this the nice benefit they get if they’ve got you know usually they’ve got really nice space people come in and see it and think oh this is a nice place maybe I could work there one day and that’s the kind of benefit they get sometimes they have speakers who would kind of say things but that’s not not always the case and usually it’s just it just depends on the company really we spent a long time just at one company where we kind of did events there every single month and that was it was good because it was convenient and it was consistent I think since obviously since covered we haven’t got that kind of one place anymore but I think the nice thing about that is now we can have a bit of a there’s a bit of variety there it takes a bit more management though from the leadership team so that’s the trade-off there we kind of sacrifice a bit of

[26:36] Simplicity but we also get lots more kind of variety and maybe more diversity through moving around a bit and trying to help kind of different spaces as being the organizer of the Jack how much effort does this take you is this it’s not a full-time job but this is a job do you consider it as a job to be done closer to an event the amount of work ramps up so you know there are as we’ve just discussed some events some hosts they’re great in just taking care of providing maybe drinks and food for the event and that’s a great help when they take that off your plate in person there is a little bit more logistical jobs that need to be done you know they’re obviously are online events it was a case of creating an event in zoom and publish on Meetup and then everybody turns up or they don’t so there is an element of work but we try to as Nick said earlier we tried to you know share their work out you know share the load between the team that’s you know trying to organize these events whatever possible I suppose what comments we’ve been involved in a job is that sense of responsibility so like

[27:51] Some sometimes things are kind of easy and they just happen but when remember when they’re not going so smoothly you do feel responsible and you kind of have to then just put in that extra bit of time and like for myself and I think for I’d speak for probably Jonathan and the other two people involved as well this is something we do on the side of a you know a nine to five day job as well so it does it sometimes it can take you know a few hours a week out of your personal time and then if you’ve got you know children and other commitments that are on the side it can get a bit busy at times but I think the payback you get is when obviously you’re at you’re at that event that in person event or that virtual one and you get good attendance you see people happy and giving you good feedback and it’s kind of all worthwhile after that so you kind of accept a bit of a bit of stress a bit of kind of busyness at times but it’s all worth it I think in the end you forget about all those headaches at the end you do for me there’s like just being involved in communities you get so much more out of it than you

[28:53] Put in anyway just through the general yeah you obviously you get the feeling of satisfaction that you’re helping a community so I think that’s good first and foremost but it for me it just creates more opportunity as well and that kind of makes you more busy sometimes again even further but you know usually they’re good opportunities the opportunities that help you kind of grow your you know your personal kind of life in some of your career and things like that so yeah I’m not trying to sell communities but if I was going to say something to anybody I’d say you know get involved in them and see what you know put you know put a bit in and you’ll get a lot out that’s for sure yeah that’s also what you see with the speakers are these big big conferences they started at a joke most of the times doing local talks and I think that’s a very good thing to get into the community get experienced in talking and standing in front of an audience here if someone is interested in the Manchester jerk itself so how do they subscribe how do they follow you we’re on Twitter we are MCR Java on Twitter mcfer

[29:59] Manchester we’ve got YouTube channel so that’s Manchester Java community on YouTube and we’re on Meetup so you’ll find us on Meetup as well I think those are probably the three key places you would find us yeah and we’ll add all these links to the show notes with this podcast that people can easily find them next to the jug itself do you organize something else around this I think it was back in 2018 we decided to run an unconference style event so that we gave that the name j monk so monk shot from Manchester and yeah we I think the first event we did it on a weekend we did it on a Saturday and we got about 40 or 50 people and it was just for me it was just an amazing kind of amazing day everybody who was there was so enthusiastic and engaged we went on conference you know the content is you know created on the day so it was like lots of great ideas we had a full day full of sessions of different kinds of kind of content different groups breaking out talking about things and that’s something then we decided to take forward so we run it again in 2019 again you know good turnout great

[31:20] Success and then obviously but obviously everything’s stopped for a while so this year back in probably about three or four months ago now we thought right is it the right time to bring Jaime back so we decided to give it a go and we planned to run the event on October the 22nd so we did we kind of got everything up and running in terms of like marketing promoting it and trying to get the word out but what we found was that it came to about like a week or two before the event was gonna happen and we didn’t really have that many people registered so we had to kind of really think about do we just go ahead or not and we decided because there were a few different kind of people who are companies who were helping us they had we’re going to have Financial commitments at some point pretty soon we decided that for whatever reason the timing wasn’t right and we think that probably a number of factors to that in Manchester specifically there was some other events going on but yeah we couldn’t really put our finger on the exact reason maybe it was because it was on a Saturday and people had now decided

[32:28] That weekdays were a better timing so we decided to say right let’s just admit admit defeat this time but let’s have a think about maybe bringing it back again in 2023 so what’s really kind of cool is that through kind of coming onto this podcast I looked back to and exactly the first event was and it was in May 2013. so actually she was our 10 year anniversary so what better timing to bring back J monk I think you know roughly last the time is we’ve run in the past have been you know May June time so again you know almost kind of London exactly on when our 10-year birthday would be so yeah what’s this space but I think that’s something we’re going to start talking about fairly soon and maybe kind of start to get some plans in place early like next year so we can give ourselves a really good amount of time to promote it and let people know it’s happening make sure we avoid any clashes with other events and get the at all it’s a bit of It’s Always a bit of an experiment it’s hard to know what kind of Engagement we’ll get but hopefully we could make a success of it next year and one of the things we’re

[33:36] Also going to try and do is in the meantime is try and get that in-person events really going again and build up that Community engagement that we had prior to the aforementioned covered pandemic again you know when we were able to run jmank a couple of times yeah I think that’s a good point like so maybe that is another factor that we have lost that connection you know in that three years there’s been a lot more you know probably hundreds thousands of new Engineers have either started working in Manchester or just started working in general come out of University and things so like maybe they don’t even know who we are because we’ve not been in person in Manchester so yeah finding that connection again hopefully will help us then establish that core community that will attend something like Jane monk going forward yeah there’s definitely a few years that were totally lost in this community and in person stuff that yeah needs a new build up I guess yeah yeah it’s not a complete reset but there is an element of starting again a little bit and then thinking about what was unique about us as a

[34:45] Community that kind of differentiates us from just being an online event that publishes kind of content on YouTube so yeah that’s the challenge well it’s a nice Challenge and it sounds like a perfect birthday party yeah if you can launch that again in the beginning of next year conference will not get started yet so I think it should be easy to find a time slot which is yeah I think that was another Factor wasn’t I think like awesome like October November is conference season from what I understand as well so I think Java one was happening it was huge I was a devops in Antwerp and then you had Java one the week after and there was another conference at the same time also in the U.S so a lot of speakers really had to choose their battles where they were focusing on yeah everyone wanted to research this conference at the same time everybody’s got the same desire as us everyone wanted to have his event back yeah and now just practically how do you organize this you said before you had the community call to involve more people how do you do this practically how do you organize

[35:54] This I think Nick initiated again back at the start of the covered pandemic was to try and open up the organization of The Jug and so we do try to do everything in public so we have a theater project board for The Jug where we try to come up with ideas for new talks or to track where we’re up to in arranging Events maybe a liaising with a speaker and getting a date in mind arranging a venue so we try to encourage anybody else you know if they have any ideas about or they themselves would like to talk you know that GitHub board is open for them to utilize and we’ve tried to again as Nick said earlier we try to host Community discussions where we are very open about discussing about what we need to do what’s happening what’s in the pipeline for talks have we got any ideas any other initiatives we’d like to maybe look at trying to do it again we do this in our spare time so it’s you know as much as where we can get as much help as we can is always going to be a bonus for us but that’s how we try to organize events we’re definitely great with ideas it always comes down to the execution

[37:16] And having the time to actually do them where we sometimes kind of struggle but I think we’ve always got things that like we want to do so this is I suppose it’s kind of a call to kind of the community really like people win the Manchester Community or even even a little bit wider you know if you’d like to get involved in a community and help we’ll find ways that we can kind of make that so nice call to everyone listening and from Manchester please join at least a session and maybe more okay we’ll also add the link to this GitHub project that sounds good so you are the Manchester Jack are you really Manchester only or how do you do this with the rest of England yes I mean yeah we are Manchester only but we do work closely with the other communities within the UK so the London Java Community who was founded by Barry cromford like quite a good few years ago that no they’re great you know they provide us so much support they helped us out with different things like our Meetup kind of fees and things like that which we really appreciate and then there’s the Dublin jug so a

[38:29] Guy called Barry allister he helps organize that and again that I suppose our relation with Dublin is they often get Rockstar speakers over I don’t know how they do it but they’re always getting great speakers but what they try to do is include us in that and do try and organize like mini tours of the UK so speakers when they come over especially if they’ve traveled a long way it’s not just for that one one event they can tie in a trip to Manchester they can also go to London and do a few other things at the same time I think that’s that’s pretty cool that you know amongst not just you know Manchester but throughout the UK we can all work together we’re not no it’s not about we’re not competing we’re all part of this one bigger Community where we all help each other help each other succeed ultimately and work together to create a better as well as Java ecosystem for everybody yeah one of the big benefits of the Java Community it’s really open and everyone wants to cooperate and make the best of what is available definitely sure okay thanks a lot thanks for joining me virtually in this trip around the world

[39:32] From Chuck to Jack we’ll see where we end up next month thanks for listening and see you next time